tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post1978994920666041449..comments2024-03-28T15:48:11.151-04:00Comments on The Philosopher's Stone: IDEOLOGICAL CRITIQUE CODARobert Paul Wolffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11970360952872431856noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-40954560009816563352011-06-13T17:09:42.953-04:002011-06-13T17:09:42.953-04:00the suspense is killing me. can't wait for to...the suspense is killing me. can't wait for tomorrow!Rosahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11560979589596952455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-41150263342250234472011-06-13T16:43:31.794-04:002011-06-13T16:43:31.794-04:00One brief addendum: This is exactly the kind of i...One brief addendum: This is exactly the kind of intelligent, courteous, thoughtful exchange that I like, and for which I want my blog to be a welcoming home.Robert Paul Wolffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970360952872431856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-47118325155720740942011-06-13T16:42:05.890-04:002011-06-13T16:42:05.890-04:00I think the exchange between WallyVerr and English...I think the exchange between WallyVerr and English Jerk is really quite interesting, and could form the basis for an independent series of posts [which I am utterly incompetent to write!]. I agree with both of you, in a sense. That is to say, Said is clearly focused on the European novel of the eighteenth through early twentieth centuries, and it is also the case that there is a great deal to be written about other literary traditions that have interesting filiations with the European novel. I am not going to get into this at all, because, as will be clear tomorrow, my focus is quite narrowly on Austen and Mansfield Park. If someone who knows this stuff better than I wants to write a guest post on the European novel in its relation to other literary traditions, I would be delighted to put it on this blog.Robert Paul Wolffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970360952872431856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-210796142059549532011-06-13T16:11:06.220-04:002011-06-13T16:11:06.220-04:00wallyverr:
Said isn't talking about "the...wallyverr:<br /><br />Said isn't talking about "the novel" in a broad sense (e.g., in which it's defined in more-or-less formal terms as a sustained prose narrative). He is talking about "the great French and English realistic novels," in other words only about the realist tradition, a tradition of writing that obeys fairly rigid conventions (conventions that, for example, Dickens and Huysmans often do not obey). He's also restricting the extension of his claim to the "great" realist novels (and he thus avoids falsification by appeal to the various obscure products of the same era). When, in the subsequent quotation, he refers to "the novel," it seems most charitable to assume that he's still talking about the same narrowly restricted set of texts.<br /><br />Also, there's an extensive scholarly literature on the ideological character of the realist novel (beginning with Ian Watt's <i>The Rise of the Novel</i>), and within that scholarly literature Said's claim here would look less controversial than it might from the outside (e.g., from the point of view of a medievalist). <br /><br />All of this is not to say that there are no grounds on which one might object to Said's claim. But, even given how polemical his formulation is (that the realist novel and empire are "unthinkable without each other"), one should not underestimate how large a body of evidence supports it. Some examples obviously support his thesis (e.g., <i>Jane Eyre</i>), so he presumably focuses on <i>Mansfield Park</i> precisely because it's a less obvious case.English Jerkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14960822939548263926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-76786177232816589872011-06-13T15:30:57.956-04:002011-06-13T15:30:57.956-04:00I am not sure I know enough to do a bourse on Afri...I am not sure I know enough to do a bourse on African-American Studies, but it would be fun. In a sense, chapters two and three of my book, AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF AN EX-WHITE MAN is my take on the subject. Let me think about it.Robert Paul Wolffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11970360952872431856noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-78790052707180351312011-06-13T15:05:23.961-04:002011-06-13T15:05:23.961-04:00Like Wallyverr I'm uncertain about the connect...Like Wallyverr I'm uncertain about the connection between the novel and European imperialism, but mainly because I think Ming and Qing dynasty China and Edo period Japan (though The Tale of Genji of course was written earlier) had novels. To me, the difference between A Dream of Red Chambers and Remembrance of Things Past is less than that between Tom Jones and To the Lighthouse. To risk stating the obvious, novels seem to arise when there is (relatively) wide-spread literacy, not necessarily when there is imperialism. <br /><br />That said, I only recently read through this bourse, thoroughly enjoyed it, and now intend to read Mannheim. Any chance of a bourse on African-American studies (unless I have already missed it)?Nickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17757157459780259514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-52219866023124757752011-06-13T13:05:44.439-04:002011-06-13T13:05:44.439-04:00I look forward to tomorrow's post, but I would...I look forward to tomorrow's post, but I would question Said's statement about the novel and 19th century European imperialism. <br /><br />Literary historians often draw an analogy between the medieval Icelandic family sagas and novels. For example, Heather O'Donoghue writes << Given that family sagas are secular, naturalistic prose narratives dealing with individuals and society, the literary genre which they most closely resemble is the novel, especially the novel in its most traditional form... But the characters and events in sagas are shaped by a culture more different from our own than we may suspect, or can easily allow for... >> <br /><br />So there is a strong similarity in form between the novels and the sagas, even though medieval Iceland was a society with no towns and no bourgeoisie, and was settled on essentially empty land rather than displacing an existing population. This makes me sceptical about a necessary linkage between literary genre and society.wallyverrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18358344785499490511noreply@blogger.com