tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post5728946461366319473..comments2024-03-29T03:19:09.227-04:00Comments on The Philosopher's Stone: WAKING NIGHTMARESRobert Paul Wolffhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11970360952872431856noreply@blogger.comBlogger130125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-17870343378460477262022-11-30T15:09:16.866-05:002022-11-30T15:09:16.866-05:00Well, according to Wikipedia, G. E. Moore was not ...Well, according to Wikipedia, G. E. Moore was not a Professor either. He held the title of Chair of the Dept. of Mental Philosophy and Logic at Cambridge.<br /><br />This has generated the following Moore Paradox:<br /><br />One can teach philosophy in college without being a Professor or having a Ph. D., but I do not believe that one can teach philosophy in college without being a Professor or having a Ph. D.<br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-5811180586957273232022-11-30T14:43:44.619-05:002022-11-30T14:43:44.619-05:00Warren,
So why then do we think Russell was such ...Warren,<br /><br />So why then do we think Russell was such a great philosopher? How can you be a great philosopher without the title to go with it? Wasn't Aristotle a Professor at the school he founded? Please tell me that G. E. Moore, at least, was a Professor.Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-33069167819881374402022-11-30T13:44:48.517-05:002022-11-30T13:44:48.517-05:00@ Mark Susselman 10:56 am
So now let me add that...@ Mark Susselman 10:56 am<br /><br />So now let me add that Bertrand Russell never held the rank of Professor. He was offered a Professorship at Harvard in 1914, but declined. He was initially offered a Professorship at City College of New York in 1940 but then the offer was annulled by the Supreme Court of New York State. In Britain, the only academic appointment he ever held was as Lecturer.Warren Goldfarbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16679084898659169317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-59094582138918725032022-11-30T13:29:51.326-05:002022-11-30T13:29:51.326-05:00Some people construe every disagreement as a perso...Some people construe every disagreement as a personal attack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-14982882127529924262022-11-30T11:12:31.240-05:002022-11-30T11:12:31.240-05:00Marc,
You're very welcome.
Professor Wolff h...Marc,<br /><br />You're very welcome.<br /><br />Professor Wolff has had the generosity to provide us with this space of free conversation and I find no problem in the fact that you make use of it. <br /><br />s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-65101046612400201272022-11-30T10:56:04.403-05:002022-11-30T10:56:04.403-05:00s. wallerstein,
I have no problem with LFC commen...s. wallerstein,<br /><br />I have no problem with LFC commenting on the academic requirements of British professors, except in this context it was as a criticism of me for having sought to confirm Warren Goldfarb’s representation that one can qualify as a Professor at Oxford, as Bernard Williams did, without a Ph. D. And then to criticize that I sought to confirm it by checking on the academic credentials of Profs. Bertrand Russell and G. E. Moore, because they were not contemporaries of Bernard Williams. It came across as a bit petty to me. And thank you for indulging me and my extraneous remarks about my conversations with strangers, my new reading material, and my interest in college football.<br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-42199050094703061102022-11-30T10:28:17.283-05:002022-11-30T10:28:17.283-05:00Marc,
Just as you use this space to talk about th...Marc,<br /><br />Just as you use this space to talk about the book you're reading, your encounter with a stranger with a weird theory about the origins of the Ivy League, what you saw on TV the night before, the triumph of your favorite football team, etc., and no one complains, I don't see why LFC can't talk about the academic credentials of British philosophers in the 2nd half of the 20th century. After all, this is philosophy blog, not one dedicated to celebrating college football victories. s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-16456116255010594902022-11-30T09:36:29.469-05:002022-11-30T09:36:29.469-05:00Marc
You misread some of what I wrote. I said if y...Marc<br />You misread some of what I wrote. I said if you wanted to confirm it, you should have looked up people roughly of Williams's generation, not Moore and Russell (or Wittgenstein for that matter). Seems an entirely reasonable point. However I won't press the point since you seem to be taking offense. We can go back to 17th century music or whatever the topic was.LFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551197682770555147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-3741445072083106222022-11-30T08:39:42.243-05:002022-11-30T08:39:42.243-05:00Apparently you are unable to let it go, as if I co...Apparently you are unable to let it go, as if I committed some grievous, unforgivable sin by seeking to confirm Warren’s statement regarding British professors and Ph.D’s.<br /><br />The following is an excerpt from an article titled, UK Universities – Academic Titles and Hierarchy Explained, https://www.discoverphds.com/advice/doing/uk-academic-titles:<br /><br />“Professor<br /><br />A professor is the highest academic title and denotes an individual at the top of their respective field. This individual would have made significant scholarly contributions to their field.<br /><br />In EU countries such as Germany and France, a faculty member has to sit and pass a review before they can become a Professor. This review is undertaken by a panel of highly experienced academic professionals and requires the individual to produce a document outlining their contributions to their field before they can even be considered.<br /><br />In the UK, a different approach is taken. Rather than being appointed by an independent review, it instead comes down to the university’s discretion whether they should be upgraded to a full professorship. However, nearly all UK universities mirror a very similar review process, with some universities also utilising independent panel members to ensure fair professoriate decisions are made.”<br /><br />So, in order to be titled Professor in the UK, a candidate must have made significant scholarly contributions, i.e., be published, and undergo a rigorous panel review, equivalent to a doctoral candidate defending his/her thesis. So, in the end, although the term “Ph. D.” may not be utilized, the processes in the UK and in the United States are similar.<br /><br />I urge you once more, just let it go.<br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-91729139567105915832022-11-30T08:08:55.133-05:002022-11-30T08:08:55.133-05:00Also H.L.A. Hart and R.M. Hare, to toss in two oth...Also H.L.A. Hart and R.M. Hare, to toss in two other names.LFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551197682770555147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-25837339829404840722022-11-29T21:56:33.306-05:002022-11-29T21:56:33.306-05:00You're right, it's no big deal. I was just...You're right, it's no big deal. I was just wondering about the mindset that leads someone to "confirm" what's pretty common knowledge, that's all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-17777044390635456862022-11-29T21:44:45.977-05:002022-11-29T21:44:45.977-05:00My goodness LFC and Anonymous, you are making a fe...My goodness LFC and Anonymous, you are making a federal case out of the fact that I confirmed what Warren wrote. What’s the point?? This was not meant as any aspersion on Warren’s credibility. As it turns out, Wittgenstein, who was of the same generation as all the philosophy professors you have identified, LFC, was in fact awarded a Ph.D. Let it go.Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-10323403523756438582022-11-29T21:35:50.551-05:002022-11-29T21:35:50.551-05:00Marc,
As Warren Goldfarb's comment indicated ...Marc,<br /><br />As Warren Goldfarb's comment indicated (or implied), the norms of British and American academia were not the same (and still are not completely the same).<br /><br />Prof. Goldfarb said that "almost none of the well-known British philosophers of Williams' generation had PhD's." You should not need to confirm that, but if you wanted to, you'd have to look up British philosophers of roughly Williams' generation -- people like Stuart Hampshire, A.J. Ayer, Philippa Foot, Iris Murdoch, P.F. Strawson (actually I'm not sure whether he's that generation or not), Elizabeth Anscombe, and various other names that I can't supply offhand.<br /><br />Instead, you looked up two people who are <i>not</i> Williams' generation but are significantly older (namely Moore and Russell).LFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551197682770555147noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-20903349956616052812022-11-29T21:11:07.522-05:002022-11-29T21:11:07.522-05:00Anonymous,
The late 19th century begins around 18...Anonymous,<br /><br />The late 19th century begins around 1880. Bertrand Russell was born in 1872; G. E. Moore was born in 1873. So, it was quite possible that by the time they both reached adulthood, the need for having a Ph.D. had become ubiquitous.<br /><br /><br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-42381338876584975422022-11-29T20:22:48.657-05:002022-11-29T20:22:48.657-05:00Why did what Warren wrote need to be confirmed. Wh...Why did what Warren wrote need to be confirmed. What he wrote is a well-known fact of British academic life. Indeed, it was a fact of academic life almost everywhere until the Ph.D. began to make inroads in the late 19th C. I guess the devaluation of various forms of certification is part of the socio-historical process. You can see it happening around us as, e.g., the US high school diploma became almost worthless as a credential for certain occupations. And now the bachelor's degree is going far down the same road to socio-economic worthlessness. One might even argue that the Ph.D. is now quite worthless unless it's buttressed by publications. C'est la vie.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-8038960159213649842022-11-29T19:45:16.921-05:002022-11-29T19:45:16.921-05:00Warren,
Thank you for that clarification. I gues...Warren,<br /><br />Thank you for that clarification. I guess I have to be more discerning about what I am told by strangers – but he was a graduate of Columbia University, or so he told me.<br /><br />Regarding Ph.D.’s among British philosophy professors, I have confirmed that neither Bertrand Russell nor G. E. Moore had Ph.D.’s. But they jointly awarded Wittgenstein a Ph.D., based on his Tractatus.<br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-83329243384671275302022-11-29T18:21:48.520-05:002022-11-29T18:21:48.520-05:00@ Mark Susselman 10:11 am on November 29
This so-...@ Mark Susselman 10:11 am on November 29<br /> This so-called history of the term "Ivy League" is what Wikipedia calls a "folk etymology". It's clearly wrong. Wikipedia also informs us that the first use of "Ivy" to refer to a group of colleges was in 1933: it included eight colleges and Army, and that the formation of the Ivy League as an association occurred several years alter with the current membership There's no trace of a group of "four". <br /><br />@ Mark Susselman 12:23 November 29. " I just assumed that Bernard Williams had a Ph.D. since he was a professor of philosophy at Oxford, and other institutions." Couldn't be more wrong. Almost none of the well-known British philosophers of Williams' generation had PhD's. And this continued for another twenty years or so, thanks to Gilbert Ryle's influence. (He thought the PhD led to overspecialization, and urged the BPhil at Oxford as a better alternative for those who wanted to become academic philosophers.). Warren Goldfarbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16679084898659169317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-83022246994344767442022-11-29T15:06:04.263-05:002022-11-29T15:06:04.263-05:00Eric,
Thanks for the correction. It looks very c...Eric,<br /><br />Thanks for the correction. It looks very complex. Do both citizens and subjects have the right to vote?David Palmeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895092366685079046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-27406699767237036112022-11-29T13:15:05.558-05:002022-11-29T13:15:05.558-05:00David Palmeter: Even today, Brits are subjects, no...David Palmeter: <i>Even today, Brits are subjects, not citizens.</i><br />Not quite so. Not all British subjects are British citizens.<br />See<br />https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-subjectEricnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-4521156185613080822022-11-29T12:50:44.292-05:002022-11-29T12:50:44.292-05:00Marc,
For sure, translation always changes the m...Marc,<br /><br />For sure, translation always changes the meaning a little. First of all, there are words which have no equivalent in the other language. Try translating "cool" (the slang version) into Spanish or "huevón" into English. <br /><br />By the way, I speak as someone who has worked professionally as a translator and simultaneous interpreter for over 40 years now.<br /><br />Latin is especially tough to translate into English because Latin word order is very flexible (because of the system of declensions) while English word order is very rigid. When you change the word order, you change the rhythm of the sentence and thus, change the reading experience a little. <br /><br />I knew enough Latin to pass a reading exam when I entered graduate school over 50 years ago as well as an exam in French. I no longer read Latin, although I still do French.s. wallersteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17448905469871566228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-14307789735084970922022-11-29T12:46:16.694-05:002022-11-29T12:46:16.694-05:00I think the proper term for persons who lived in F...<br />I think the proper term for persons who lived in France before the Revolution is "subject." They were not citizens with rights, but subjects of the Monarch. Even today, Brits are subjects, not citizens.David Palmeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01895092366685079046noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-56027576147822456812022-11-29T12:23:52.161-05:002022-11-29T12:23:52.161-05:00Fritz,
Thank you for your correction. I just ass...Fritz,<br /><br />Thank you for your correction. I just assumed that Bernard Williams had a Ph.D. since he was a professor of philosophy at Oxford, and other institutions.<br /><br />It is true that the legal definition of being a citizen in the U.S. was added to the Constitution by the 1st sentence of the 14th Amendment: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.” This provision has raised the ire of Republicans, because it means that children born of illegal immigrants are granted U.S. citizenship at birth. But this does not invalidate my reliance above on the secondary meaning of “citizen” which is based on where one lives.<br /><br />Thank you for the Bickel reference. I will check it out. In the meantime, I have ordered a copy of Nostromo from Amazon. (Hiss, boo!)<br />Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-38706724119892764672022-11-29T11:46:45.234-05:002022-11-29T11:46:45.234-05:00LFC,
You are right. I was actually responding t...LFC, <br /><br />You are right. I was actually responding to John Rapko's comment and erroneously ascribed it to you. My apologies.Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-30982137708458407802022-11-29T11:42:50.769-05:002022-11-29T11:42:50.769-05:00Eric,
Typing. If my comment is long, I generally...Eric,<br /><br />Typing. If my comment is long, I generally fist type it in Word, and then copy and paste it into Prof. Wolff's blog. Sometimes, if I ma in a rush and my comment in short, I will type it directly into the blog.Marc Susselmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5687347459208158501.post-13850620767800491662022-11-29T11:41:32.513-05:002022-11-29T11:41:32.513-05:00Marc
I don't know why you are trying to rope ...Marc<br /><br />I don't know why you are trying to rope me into the debate about Williams's position since I said nothing about its substance, either pro or con. (I haven't even followed all the ins and outs of the debate about it in this thread.)<br /><br />Frankly I have no interest in the question whether 17th cent music played in the 21st cent is "the same music." I'm interested in music, but this particular question -- philosophical or semantic or whatever it is -- doesn't really interest me.LFChttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13551197682770555147noreply@blogger.com