It would be a hard pill to swallow if those Independent and moderate Republicans who voted against Trump in 2020 would not do so again, given the stakes are exponentially higher this time around.
Around a week ago, Sunny Hostin of the View said that unless Kamala Harris stays as Biden's V.P. running mate that Biden will lose the African-American vote. And yet Harris is the main reason many prejudiced Democrats won't vote for Biden. They don't want to see Harris ever becoming POTUS. I never thought many over-the-top prejudiced (& progressive) Democrats would be responsible for holding the Democratic Party hostage during its greatest hour of need. I'd expect it from non-Democrats but not from Democrats. Now that there is a precedent perhaps I and many others will no longer be shocked about it.
Progressive Democrats don't like Harris because she is not a progressive.... not because they are "prejudiced."
And I doubt that any progressive would not vote for Biden, given that the choice would be Trump [!], because Harris is on the ticket. That is just a crazy suggestion.
Or, have I not understood your jab at progressives in your two posts?
Many Republican ads will target Kamala Harris in order to draw the Independent and moderate Republicans back in to the fold, specifically arguing that Biden won't finish a second term and she will become president.
'Progressive Democrats don't like Harris because she is not a progressive.... not because they are "prejudiced."'
No jabs against progressives from me. You're probably right about progressives, though, but there are many other Democrats who are fearful of voting for POTUS Biden for fear it will be an inevitable vote for a POTUS Harris.
Don't mind a POTUS Harris myself (although, I do want Biden to live to 110 plus years), but I believe there may be a lot of Democratic voters still living as anti-African-American leadership today. Not many, but still a considerable amount--which is a shame.
s.w., it's way too early. Besides Trump looks terrible and is tweeting about executing the CJCS among other rants. Biden is 80 and rides a bicycle, Trump is 77 and uses a golf cart. Trump just got creamed in NY and I see that the first RICO defendant has pled out. All that stress in a way overweight, mentally ill person likely won't end well. Recall his mentor died broke and disbarred.
Back in 2010 I read that Rove dropped a million into CA which puzzled me as there were no serious state-wide offices for Republicans. Awhile later I was helping a friend with her ballot and suggested Harris for the AG line. My friend reacted negatively and related a phone call that linked Harris to an issue that triggered her. Light bulb turns on and I point out that she gets a call from a stranger on a rather private issue and she just goes along? She voted for Harris.
We live in a rural county in far-northern California (~eight hours to the Bay Area). My friends issue could have been sussed out with some creative ITing and someone had the money to hire the folks who could do that statewide. It was obvious back then that Harris had legs so I assumed a preemptive strike.
Dropping Harris would be a disaster for Democrats (besides the only likely way we get a female president is through succession). I'm not sure Harris is all that different from other electable Dems in the current timeline. "Progresive" would be nice but administrative chops count for more...
DZ and ML, misogyny may count for more - check out the differences in how male and female Blacks and Hispanics voted in 2016. With the exceptions of Michigan and Arizona, the states where race is a possibly dispositive issue for white folks are already solid R.
On the race issue Democratic voters elected Obama twice, so they can't be all that racist.
We're all a little racist, I believe, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't vote for a black candidate. It might be more likely to affect our mating behavior or our choice of friends.
You make a good point--- it is arguable that sexism had a lot to do with Hilary Clinton's loss. (Yes, yes... she ran a bad campaign... but it is a mistake ever to underestimate the power of misogyny.)
s.w., in the context of the U.S., the electoral significance of a racially motivated vote is all that matters. Why one votes won't matter in Alabama or California (130 mi. east of moi it's Mississippi).
Obama is part Irish. I've wondered if some of those crossover voters thought they were voting for Barack O'Bama of the County Offaly O'Bamas.
Trump did a speech in Ca today in which he allowed that if he is elected it will be OK to shoot shoplifters as they leave the store. The timing and scope of the decompensation is all that will matter.
Here's Shay Black (who's held court at our local Irish pub for what seems like many decades) with the proof of Obama's Irishness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADUQWKoVek&ab_channel=333Spiral
Is it at all relevant that neither Obama nor Harris has connexions with the 'traditional' African-American population descended from slavery? Come to think of it, there are also all those of recent Caribbean origin whose ancestors' experience of slavery was just as monstrous although rather different from the US one.
Back to Harris, it might also become relevant that the Hindu caste system is now coming under scrutiny, and I recall reading somewhere that Harris's mother said some rather questionable things about the superiority of her caste. ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66736708 this is not a reference to Harris but to her home state.)
Anyway, who knows for sure what things weigh on the minds of those deciding how to vote? (I'm filled with admiring disbelief for those who are so certain in their judgements of such things.)
As an alumna of Howard University, her undergraduate alma mater, Harris has -- or ought to have -- some "cred" with at least some African Americans of more "traditional" descent. She chose to go to a historically Black university, unlike Obama (who went to Occidental College and then transferred to Columbia for his undergrad degree).
Anon, she won three statewide races with solid majorities and carried Alameda and Los Angeles counties which are minority majority counties with significant AA, Asian, and Latino populations. Nationwide, race isn't going to be as much a problem as is her being a woman. I believe Indian Americans overwhelmingly voted for Biden/Harris.
This Guardian column suggests that unless the Democrats select a candidate other than Biden, we're going to have another Trump presidency.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/29/unless-joe-biden-stands-aside-the-world-must-prepare-for-president-trump-20
It would be a hard pill to swallow if those Independent and moderate Republicans who voted against Trump in 2020 would not do so again, given the stakes are exponentially higher this time around.
ReplyDeleteAround a week ago, Sunny Hostin of the View said that unless Kamala Harris stays as Biden's V.P. running mate that Biden will lose the African-American vote. And yet Harris is the main reason many prejudiced Democrats won't vote for Biden. They don't want to see Harris ever becoming POTUS. I never thought many over-the-top prejudiced (& progressive) Democrats would be responsible for holding the Democratic Party hostage during its greatest hour of need. I'd expect it from non-Democrats but not from Democrats. Now that there is a precedent perhaps I and many others will no longer be shocked about it.
ReplyDeleteI myself want to vote for Biden. Vice President Kamala Harris, and also POTUS Kamala Harris is not a problem for me.
ReplyDeleteTo ML:
ReplyDeleteProgressive Democrats don't like Harris because she is not a progressive.... not because they are "prejudiced."
And I doubt that any progressive would not vote for Biden, given that the choice would be Trump [!], because Harris is on the ticket. That is just a crazy suggestion.
Or, have I not understood your jab at progressives in your two posts?
To ML:
ReplyDeleteIt is plausible, however, to suppose that some Black voters would stay home if Biden removed Harris from the ticket.
I think that that would be stupid (the alternative is Trump, after all!)
But--- I imagine that the patience of a long-taken-for-grated constituency would be limited in the face of such a slap in the face as her removal.
Many Republican ads will target Kamala Harris in order to draw the Independent and moderate Republicans back in to the fold, specifically arguing that Biden won't finish a second term and she will become president.
ReplyDeleteDZ
ReplyDelete'Progressive Democrats don't like Harris because she is not a progressive.... not because they are "prejudiced."'
No jabs against progressives from me. You're probably right about progressives, though, but there are many other Democrats who are fearful of voting for POTUS Biden for fear it will be an inevitable vote for a POTUS Harris.
Don't mind a POTUS Harris myself (although, I do want Biden to live to 110 plus years), but I believe there may be a lot of Democratic voters still living as anti-African-American leadership today. Not many, but still a considerable amount--which is a shame.
To ML:
ReplyDeleteYou are probably right abut residual racism in (even) the Democratic electorate.
Evil times continue.
s.w., it's way too early. Besides Trump looks terrible and is tweeting about executing the CJCS among other rants. Biden is 80 and rides a bicycle, Trump is 77 and uses a golf cart. Trump just got creamed in NY and I see that the first RICO defendant has pled out. All that stress in a way overweight, mentally ill person likely won't end well. Recall his mentor died broke and disbarred.
ReplyDeleteBack in 2010 I read that Rove dropped a million into CA which puzzled me as there were no serious state-wide offices for Republicans. Awhile later I was helping a friend with her ballot and suggested Harris for the AG line. My friend reacted negatively and related a phone call that linked Harris to an issue that triggered her. Light bulb turns on and I point out that she gets a call from a stranger on a rather private issue and she just goes along? She voted for Harris.
We live in a rural county in far-northern California (~eight hours to the Bay Area). My friends issue could have been sussed out with some creative ITing and someone had the money to hire the folks who could do that statewide. It was obvious back then that Harris had legs so I assumed a preemptive strike.
Dropping Harris would be a disaster for Democrats (besides the only likely way we get a female president is through succession). I'm not sure Harris is all that different from other electable Dems in the current timeline. "Progresive" would be nice but administrative chops count for more...
DZ and ML, misogyny may count for more - check out the differences in how male and female Blacks and Hispanics voted in 2016. With the exceptions of Michigan and Arizona, the states where race is a possibly dispositive issue for white folks are already solid R.
ReplyDeleteOn the race issue Democratic voters elected Obama twice, so they can't be all that racist.
ReplyDeleteWe're all a little racist, I believe, but that doesn't mean that we wouldn't vote for a black candidate. It might be more likely to affect our mating behavior or our choice of friends.
To aaall:
ReplyDeleteYou make a good point--- it is arguable that sexism had a lot to do with Hilary Clinton's loss. (Yes, yes... she ran a bad campaign... but it is a mistake ever to underestimate the power of misogyny.)
s.w., in the context of the U.S., the electoral significance of a racially motivated vote is all that matters. Why one votes won't matter in Alabama or California (130 mi. east of moi it's Mississippi).
ReplyDeleteObama is part Irish. I've wondered if some of those crossover voters thought they were voting for Barack O'Bama of the County Offaly O'Bamas.
Trump did a speech in Ca today in which he allowed that if he is elected it will be OK to shoot shoplifters as they leave the store. The timing and scope of the decompensation is all that will matter.
Here's Shay Black (who's held court at our local Irish pub for what seems like many decades) with the proof of Obama's Irishness: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EADUQWKoVek&ab_channel=333Spiral
ReplyDeleteIs it at all relevant that neither Obama nor Harris has connexions with the 'traditional' African-American population descended from slavery? Come to think of it, there are also all those of recent Caribbean origin whose ancestors' experience of slavery was just as monstrous although rather different from the US one.
ReplyDeleteBack to Harris, it might also become relevant that the Hindu caste system is now coming under scrutiny, and I recall reading somewhere that Harris's mother said some rather questionable things about the superiority of her caste. ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66736708 this is not a reference to Harris but to her home state.)
Anyway, who knows for sure what things weigh on the minds of those deciding how to vote? (I'm filled with admiring disbelief for those who are so certain in their judgements of such things.)
anon.
ReplyDeleteAs an alumna of Howard University, her undergraduate alma mater, Harris has -- or ought to have -- some "cred" with at least some African Americans of more "traditional" descent. She chose to go to a historically Black university, unlike Obama (who went to Occidental College and then transferred to Columbia for his undergrad degree).
Anon, she won three statewide races with solid majorities and carried Alameda and Los Angeles counties which are minority majority counties with significant AA, Asian, and Latino populations. Nationwide, race isn't going to be as much a problem as is her being a woman. I believe Indian Americans overwhelmingly voted for Biden/Harris.
ReplyDelete"Anyway, who knows for sure..."
Le Atwater knew.